Why this 7-Figure Agency Started Affiliate Marketing (James Norquay Interview)

– Why would an SEO agency thatdoes seven fleshes per year pivot into affiliate marketing? In this video, I’llinterview James Norquay, the founder of Prosperity Media, the most difficult SEO agencyin Sydney, Australia. I firstly assembled James when he flewover for a private Mastermind at the Chiang Mai SEO Conference and we stayed in touch ever since. James is an absolute boss, literally when it comesto large-scale SEO. Prosperity Media focuseson large-scale initiative, whale-sized clients, andthings are going well for them. Seven figures per year well. But in recent years, James decided to dedicate a significant part of his activities over to affiliate marketing.In this interview, we’regonna find out why. What does he know that we don’t know? How much money is hemaking from affiliate now? And most importantly, whatare his SEO approaches that he’s deploying toget these amazing outcomes? Get ready for a gunman interrogation and retain to demolish the like button, which is the equivalentof giving James and I an internet high five. Thanks, let’s get onto the show. James, thanks for coming on. Why don’t you open us a briefintroduction to who you are and what you’re up to in this SEO world.- Hi everyone, my specify is James Norquay. I operate an agency in Sydney. We’ve got 19 works. We do SEO. Likewise got a stable ofaffiliate places that we lead. Been in the SEO space over 16 years now. I initially started witha big MySpace layout site that got a few millionvisitors back in the day. I’ve been running websitesand doing SEO for a very long time. So yeah, good to chat today, Matt. – Excellent. Good to catch up, it’s been a while. So I wanna hear all about your SEO story and everything you’reup to right now as well, but why don’t we take thingsback a little bit further? How old-time are you? Where saw you born? And what kind of education do you get? – So I simply turned 34, liketwo weeks ago in August.So I’m, I dunno, I’d sayI’m relatively young, but I precisely exerted someonewho was born in 2003. So I’m feeling old-time so. Yeah, basically I was born in Sydney. I went to uni. I didmarketing and business. Yeah, basically before thatI cultivated in building for my uncle’s corporation. So I really realized like between the senilities of like 15 and 17, when I wielded in creation, I recognise how hard that job was and how I never was necessary to do that.So in the nighttime, I was coming home andplaying around with websites and learning how to codeand nonsense like that. And when I finished high school, I went to uni and then I didmarketing and e-marketing, so yeah, basically, that was what it wascalled back in 2005, 2006, it was announced e-marketing. So it was like, it was like the uni’s way ofbeing innovative and yeah. – Cool, cool. Well, how’d you get, how’d you pivot from e-marketing into SEO? What did that excursion look like? – So I was basically oncar gatherings back in the working day, induce I had some gondolas and one day I was just chattingto someone in the car forum this was like back in 2004, 2005, and he said, yeah, “I’m doing SEO for mycar wallpaper website.” And then I was like, “oh, wow, this sounds interesting.What the hell is SEO? ” And yeah, he told me about digital phase gatherings and contributed me to some Skype chat with a assortment of other random SEO parties. And yeah, from there on, I started a MySpace site and then I started a whole bunch of like, leisure areas inlike, in the music industry. A batch of the websites weremonetized by AdSense. So I started making a lotof money through AdSense, but I was, yeah, when I was like 18, mostly started making money online, started was just trying to, yeah, really is everything, buying precise competition disciplines. Buying back relate packageson digital phase meetings still spammy( expletive ), mostly merely blastingexact match realms and then getting themranking in the US market so it was driving a lot of traffic. I reflect one of my websites hadlike 21 million pilgrims, like in the life of the area. So yeah, it was, like, at the time like, itwas all just like a blur, like, basically built up these websites and time playing around with SEO and testing different things.So yeah, that’s kindahow I started the sites and then yeah, like, I was making money inbuying like cars and watches and trash, and beings were like, how are you making this money? Like, are you selling dopes? And I’m like , no, I’m making money online. This was back in, backin like, back in 2006, people didn’t know, like, they didn’t, that didn’t really assimilate that you could shape thatkind of money online and then my mothers was exactly, you better go and get a real job.So after running the sitesfor like two or three years, when I was at uni, I moved to uni to lights and I vanished and went and got a jobin an advertising agency that, like, wanted tostart an SEO division. And now this was back in like 2008, 2009. So it was still early days back then, like, SEO was various kinds of a dark artwork. I was like in, I was in the team with the, I think there was like 50 paid examine people because at the time I affiliated what was the biggest advertising agency that was doing like, Google ads back in the working day so they used to call it AdWords back then.And I was like the first kind of SEO guy. And yeah, basically myjob was just the opposite of parties that were doing Google ads SEO and come in and just like, I was just propel in the deep end from day one. Because when I started that job, I think in like the first week, my boss at the time was like, I’m moving back to Brazil, you’re going to have to be the sole hire. So that was my firstly agency occupation, thrown straight in the deep end and I had to basicallylearn rapidly from there.And then yeah, I succeeded there for like four or 5 year and then I started the currentagency Prosperity Media. So yeah, we’ve been growing this companyfor like the last nine years and we’ve worked with somemajor brands in Australia, the US, Singapore. So primarily like most of our industries in the Asian Pacific region. But yeah, it’s been a wild ride.And then off the back of that, we’ve started to get backinto affiliate areas. I had some staff that were like, can we start an affiliate website? I had, we’ve also started, we’ve been running eventsfor like the last nine years. So we did like meet ups where we’d just go and get like a SEO personto come and do a safarus. We used to have networkingdrinks with SEOs. We guided like 80 incidents and then we’ve mostly gotinto conventions as well. So we guide the large-hearted SEOconference, the beginnings of 2020, which we had the pleasureof yourself coming and speaking on that. And then we’ve had, yeah, we’ve done a entire bunchof other little contests and Conceives like, we’ve really been getting intoMastermind since COVID stumbled so I see like a smallernumber of people like, everyone sharing ideas, predominantly focused on SEO andaffiliate these Masterminds.But yeah, we’ve been getting somegreat people coming to them. People like Alex Ezuri and Tom Disbury and a few other randomaffiliate guys in Australia that you would have never heard of. Yeah. It’s been really good. – It’s awesome, somebody. And I think you’re downplayingthe success of Prosperity. As I understand, it’s a multi-million dollarannual revenue agency. You guys are the biggest in Sydney, arguably in the SEO space. There’s this concept of the one thing and if you figure outsomething that works, you are able to double down onthat, you should focus on that. What meets you decide tobe interested in an events and be interested in affiliate when you’re doing so wellwith the agency side stuff? – Events, I didn’t realize how much work it was going to be to do a big one.Like an hour large-hearted eventwas like 200 beings. Like your big-hearted episodes, like athousand plus, you are familiar with, like, but it’s a lot of work, like, an occurrences I recognized youdon’t make money from them. The quality from contests is offthe tail end of it, you know, starting joinings, label awareness, like, putting your companionship as like, the centerpiece of theevent and being top of spirit. So when someone thinks about SEO, they’ll ask their friendsand then they’re like, oh, I went to this event by Prosperity Media and they’re like SEO specialist team and they’re great for that or gratifying immense beings thatcome to the event or yeah, like you don’t spawn yourmoney back right there.You’re lucky if you can break even, but you’re making moneyback on the hind end, I study, like, from likereferrals and brand-new business and yeah, like, it’s crazy with episodes. Like, I feel like it’s not a fund maker if you want to do it welllike, and accuse a fair premium. But the agency, yeah, like, we’re definitely one of thelargest specialist business in Sydney, if not Australia, is like a couple of maybe bigger ones, but like, we’re definitelyone of the most important in Sydney that simply do SEO content. There’s a lot of full serviceagencies that are nature bigger, but like they do everything and they might only havefive people in SEO team. Like, then we’re definitely bigger so, they’re spread thin typically. – But why get intoaffiliate at this item? I get events becausethat helps the agency, that helps you get some more clients, but being an affiliate, that’s like an island in itself.It renders money by itself, doesn’t interact with anything else. So why affiliate? – Yeah, so mostly like I’vealways been into websites, constructing sites and I’ve always had locates and yeah, I suppose likemaybe three, four years earlier, some of the team representatives were like, oh, let’s start some of our own websites. Like, let’s measure things on these websites, let’s get some stuff going on that front. And yeah, essentially, becausesome of our team members, like Dejon Nadalofski, whoused to work for our unit, he was like, let’s build upour some internal assets or that’s how he called them. And yeah, basically we started, like, we went out into the market and what we did was we hada few ways of building them. Like, we built websites from scratch. We acquired four affiliate websites. We built places on expired realms as well. And essentially in the lastlike three or four years, we probably built about 20 sites. Out of those 20 areas, I’d probably say three ofthem is truly to take away and started to make like decent money.By nice money, I imply like, one of them is on track tomake like six anatomies a year. So it’s going well, but it’s a lot of work. Like, I remember the benefitof an affiliate place, you’re going to get a bigger multiple, if you want to sell it, like, if you want tosell an affiliate site, you can get a 40 X monthly several. If you want to sell- 50 now. – Yeah well, 60 in, unquestionably, 60 in some niches, if not more for the right site, you are familiar with. And if you’ve got the right buyers. I think your multiplesare going to be better than trying to sell an busines. Enterprises the hardestsell because it’s like, like people don’t generally appreciate enterprises with sizable numerous. I think that’s one key space that we did it. I imagine unquestionably testing new ideas. Anytime we want to test something, it’s great to test it on theaffiliate area, you know.Like, if we’ve got some crazy SEO hat that we want to test out, we want to mechanicalizeand explore domains of one of our affiliate locates, we want to test some new schemathat’s just been released, we want to test Jarvis content on a site, we’ll roster it out ona affiliate website first before we even make love on a patient area. Because we can test stuff quickly. You don’t want to go to likea multi-billion dollar client and say, I want to testJarvis content on your pages. They’re going to be like, getthe( expletive) out of here like, we don’t want you to do that, like. That’s what I imagine thehidden perfection is for testing. It’s definitely really great. Like, our team’s happy to exam it. Another thing that we’ve donein the last year or so is when we’ve had some new starters start, basically we will say to them, like, we’re going to give you a site, an affiliate website to learn on and you can start learning on how to grow and learn about SEO.And we established it into a competition so we’ve offered like a cashprize for whoever fixes the most traffic from SEO in a year. So the junior SEO membershave been really excited by projects like that, where they’ve been incentivized and yeah, like, we’re just testing allsorts of different stuff, virtually. – That’s awesome. Let’s get into some more of those measures. Can you share any of theresults that you stumble upon through your testing? – Like, I symbolize, I think it’s like some of thebiggest research we’re doing is with expired provinces, you are familiar with, like, looking for certain expired subjects and essentially trying to build them up. I think that’s one thing thatwe’ve been testing a lot.Like, I’ve probably bought like, a shit onu of, waste a shit onu ofmoney on expired orbits over the last couple of years, just like from a testing point of view, merely to rebuild them firstly, and then like, see howthey kind of get indexed. And essentially, basicallywe’re trying to like, see how quickly they comeback into Google’s index, see how quickly we can gettraction for commercial queries, stuff like that, you know.- What kind of characteristics are you knowing in theexpired regions that work, apart from the onesthat don’t really succeed? – I think.- What kind of things do you looking after for? – I imagine one of the most important things you’ve got to look for is like, look at the site on waybackarchives before you, like, you buy the expired subject. Like, if it’s already beenrebirth like one or two times and it hasn’t vanish anywhere. I visualize another thing thatwe ever like to look at is does the site haveindex pages in Google? Like, how long has thissite been down for.Like, all these different factors you got to start thinking about like, what’s the quality of the link profile? – Where do you get your domains from? – We basically buy, like, we’re looking for a strain domains. So like we use websites likeDropped or( illegible ), that’s a real popularone in the strain sell. A heap of our faculty expend Dropcatch, some of our squad in thepast has employed, like, Spamzilla to try and findexpired subjects so yeah, virtually we’re just looking for subjects for affiliate places. That’s our main game. Yah, we’re just liketesting, rebuilding them and considering how things workand testing different factors. It’s crazy like, you can buyan expired subject for $500 and it can be a game changer. And then you can go and drop 10 K on one and are able to obtain no traffic.Like that’s the risk, like, we’ve been there, like, yeah, it’s crazy how you don’t knowhow well they’re going to do. But I’m certainly stillseeing expired provinces dominating competitive horizontals. Like, I’ve seen some, in some, super competitive finance niches in Australia, in the US, like expired provinces have come on in the last six to 12 monthsand they’re doing really well. And these people, they’ve been constitute sixfigures a few months plus, you know. They know what they’re doing, so there’s, but they’re paying top dollarfor they’re orbits, you know. These aren’t inexpensive orbits. So yeah, we’re playing aroundwith a lot of substance like that. I wouldn’t say that’s like abig one of the purposes of our errand though. That’s just something thatwe do for fun, you know, like looking forward to provinces and I’m actually likea domain name investor. So I’ll buy like premium provinces as well. Like just for fun. Just doing all sorts of substance, you know? – That’s cool.That’s cool. Yeah, I symbolize, you’ve beenin the game for so long. You’re going to pick up all these weird, idiosyncrasies in the SEO game. – A hundred percentage. Like youcan pick up like everything, you know, and then yougo to these Mastermind and you might get a few new ideas. And then like chlorella, who picked up the tactics from Mastermind and then you come backand you implement it on your affiliate website. It’s great and that’swhy I adoration Masterminds because it’s like, so like, it’s a smaller crowd, high quality people. Everyone’s just sharing goodies. Like, the type of stuff thatyou might see online, you know, you won’t see it on likeStephen Kang’s SEO Signals Lab, or like you won’t see it on like any of the other SEO groups.I truly cherish those kind of tricks. I entail, sometimes you dosee really great tricks. Like, I remember in theaffiliate lab Facebook group, I’ve seen some greattactics people are sharing. Like, we’ve definitelyimplemented a few of them. Every now and then you’ll hear a post that says someone’s experimented something and they’ll share likea really great strategy. And then you implementthat and you make like, you make like a lot more money, merely from like, a small implementation. And that’s where the valueis, you know, it’s priceless. – It feels like the more exclusive the sharing container is the more sharing that there’s going to be. So like, you’ll have your trend, which has a level of sharing because people pay to get in it.Then the Mastermind, because it’s paw selected, there’s only eight peopleshowing up or whatever, you can get even more sharing. Yeah. I fully agree. And conceives is like, where I proliferate thesedays, a hundred percentage. – A hundred percent, like, especially if you’ve gotpeople that have already sold ventures for seven, eight fleshes, you are familiar with, these are like really peopleat the top of their game. And then they’ve already testedeverything under the sun. So you just ask them like, what do you think about this? Or how have you approached that? Then they just lay it on youlike, yeah, do this, do that, this is a great way to grow, like talk to this person, use this thing. Like that’s priceless, you know.It saves you so much era. – Right. And I was goingto save this for later, but I feel like it’s probably a good time to share it right now, but I will be doing a Mastermind this Q4, online for the affiliate laboratories. So I want the affiliate labmembers to experience what that intimate decided is likeand being able to share in a small group established. So we’re going to be doingsomething like that online and rendering all the money to philanthropy. So super tended about that. – No, that’s a great idea.And like, I most advise, like if people are watchingthat to get involved, because you’re gonna getpriceless information. Even if it’s a pair hundred horses, like you will acquire the money back. Like, that’s the crazy thingabout when you run an affair. You blame like $300, it’s like, someone’s like, oh, I don’t know, it’s $ 300. And it’s was like, you gotta utter 50 or ahundred thousand dollars back if you come to this damn event. Like, you’re gonna determine the money back. Like, that’s the thing, like, you gotta just take the risk. And I’d most caution peoplego to these types of happenings because it’s pricelessinformation that parties share. And I mull the goodthing about Masterminds is you get like SEOsthat are the real deal. Like, I don’t want todiscredit consultations, but sometimes you get beings that speak on conference tours and they’re just, it’s like real top degree intelligence because sometimes thepeople that really in the grass researching material, they’re at Mastermind and they’ll be happy to share something to a small group cause they don’t wanna be on stage, you know, they’renot a public speaker, so.- Yeah. SEO skill and speaking onstage , no connect at all. As a matter fact, they’re uncorrelated. – Some of the best SEOs I’ve know, like, the person or persons concluding the most money, like you’ve never heard of them. They never get to speak inan event, you are familiar with, like. – Yes, a hundred percentage. Let’s get back to talkingabout affiliate areas. I heard you say that for your bureau, you focus on content andprobably technical SEO as well, and you’re touching connection house. But what about for your affiliate places? Are you able to rank without relates? Are you toss some associations at it? – I think it depends on how competitive the vertical is, you know.Like if you’re in a supercompetitive niche like finance or like sleep or technicians, like everyone’s still onlink structure, you know. You’ve got to have theauthority on your place. But if you’re in like a superlow competitive niche, like, super low keyword difficultyterms that you going after, I think you can get away withlike, simply doing material. Like, I’ve got a friend whoI partnered up with it on an affiliate site. He actually used to workwith me like four years ago and we’d built a website together. So we’ve been running that ever since, and he’s no longer an employee, but he’s got his own sites.And he recently constructed a site targeting low-toned competitor queries and he’s getting likea thousand clicks a day and he hasn’t done any connection construct more. So, I think if it’s a lowcompetition niche, surely. But I think if you’retrying to go into like finance verticals and material like that, and you’re not make connect structure, it’s hard unless you’re goingoff the low-spirited rival nonsense, you are familiar with, like question and rebuttal material, like looking at what like, Quora and Reddit’s ranking for, and like construct your own landing sheets based on reverse engineering that.Like, you can rank for thattype of stuff without ties. But if you want to go forlike business pate words, you clearly need someauthority is what I’ve seen. – Sure, sure. And what kind of ties do you built design? I’m still not sure if Igot a clear answer, like, are you building links toyour affiliate locates or? – Yeah, a hundred percentage “we ii”. – What kind of links are you building? – We’re building a whole rangeof different tie-ups, you are familiar with, like we’re building linksinto like, material slice, like, statistic resources, research articles, we’re building ties intolike from guest poles, like high-quality guest posts, typically we’ll veterinarian thesites moderately heavily. So this is the only way want to havesites that have like traffic from like Australia, US, Canada. We will go like sitesthat are like DR 20 plus minimum 1k traffic. Usually we’ll check if thesites attaching out to like CBD or anything, like anything like that.So usually we cut this type of places. Usually we try to go forlike more quality places, like real sites that havean editorial process. Yeah, I want, we’re doingresource sheet links too. We’re still definitely punching that. I are of the view that still worksin certain horizontals, especially like education. You can definitely get a lotof success in those niches. Yeah, we’re doing allsorts of trash, you are familiar with. Like we’re doing like, your foundational attaches as well. Like, everyone usually has to do that. Like, we’re targeting, like, any type of strategy, we’ll devote it a rift, you know. Anything that’s kind ofscalable is what we want to do. Like, I seen anyone like, the other day talking to me and they saidthat they had an agency and their alone strategy wasto use mention to come links.And it’s like I said tothe guy, I said mate, like, it’s not the most scalable strategy. Like, I think in thelast six months they .. – You time have to wait untilthe opportunities show up with – We have to wait, – It’s not proactive, its reactive. – I think they got tolinks in like six months. And I was like, you’re not going to getresults in this competitive monetary vertical that they’re in, like, I said, you gotta use strategiesthat actually get results. I think that’s a mistake alot of parties manufacture, you know, they are likely ensure like a showy programme and then they’ll( expletive) this is gonna be game changer, but itmight not be scalable.Especially different horizontals, different things seem to work, you are familiar with? Like- Yeah, utterly – Yeah, like different outreachstrategies, like, yeah. Like, we’ve done some work with BB Bars on outreach for our squad. She’s helped us with some course substance and yeah, she’s great. Like, the stuff thatshe does is like crazy. Like, she exerts comedy so wellfor her outreach and the knacks and stuff that she usesin that outreach process, it’s like next level.Like, it stands out and that’swhat you need to do now. I think in outreach, you need to stand out because everyone is sendingthe same( expletive ), you are familiar with, like, enormous place, here’s three affix theories. I’m a longtime reader, like, webmasters are sick of that( expletive) Like you gotta stand out. – Not exclusively that, but spamfilters are sick of it extremely. And it’s building in and it doesn’t even makeit into inbox these days. – A hundred percent. You gotta do things thatare going to stand out and like everything’s hittingspam filters, you are familiar with. That’s another thing likea lot of parties don’t do is they don’t check, like, how, what’s the spam ratingof the email, you are familiar with? Like, I construe beings that are doing outreach and then you check theemail and you’re like, this has got a really bad spam rating.Your email, like, you’renot even smacking inboxes. – No. Yeah. What are you expending tocheck for spam rating? I’m expend SendGrid. – We’re just expend Mymailtester and some of those tools, like that like, only nothing crazy. Like, I wouldn’t say like, we’re going penetrating on that, but like, some of themlike, have jolly decent, some of those implements that you can use. – Yeah. What are some of the moregrayer skills that you’re testing out on the affiliate locates? Clearly, like you said before, you can’t travel full Jarvis onthe client site without them freaking the( epithet) out, but what are you doingfor your affiliate websites? – Yeah, I imply, like, I don’t know, like, what you define as gray hat, like, I review like, that’s Y domains is kindof gray hat, you know like niche revises couldbe kind of gray hat.Like, yeah, exploiting Jarvis content. Like, is that gray hat? I don’t know. Like, some people wouldsay it’s white hat. It’s a hard clarity, you know, like. – Yeah, who knows? – Yeah, I intend .. – All these definitionsdon’t even really matter, to be honest. But I predict the purest thinkeverything is white hat. Not supposed to build relates. They’re supposed to come in magically. All content should behandwritten, that kind of stuff. But in terms of the gray hat stuff, you’ve played with Jarvis, are you getting results from that? – Yeah, we’re witnes, I convey, we’ve only been using itfor a couple of months, so I wouldn’t say we’re like penetrating experts.I necessitate, I’ve got somebuddies who are affiliates and they’re doing like 50,000 statements a daytime on positions, you know. They’ve built a team around it so. I, like they’re buildingup they’re expired regions and implementing it. I fantasize like, to be honest with you, like, you can use it for like filler material. I say it’s not there yet. You still need someone to go on editor. Like, you need aneditorial process for it. It’s not going to be perfect, but it’s definitely good to help columnists speed up the process. Like, if you’ve got a big editorial unit and what Jarvis can do is it can help speed upthat process, you know? Like, you can give themlike sentence structure. I can give them topicideas and even entitle minds. Sometimes it’s really goodto speed up scribes, I feel, and get them to produce more content.But you clearly need ahuman process to revise it, a hundred percentage. – Yeah. Yeah. I find the same. I think it’s strong right now is to be able to complete a topical map. You know, if you’ve watched my interrogation with Corey and we are speaking of, you know, in order to be an authority on apples, you need to cover all 500 different fluctuations of topics on apples. And I guess on the non-important ones, the ones that don’t haveno commercial-grade purport, that are answering simple questions, like how many calories in an apple. Yes, Jarvis that up andjust get it out there and get it indexed andmove on to the next thing.- Exactly. And especially for thatquery is no one else has a landing page on it. You can use Jarvislike, a hundred percent, you are familiar with, like that’s all like zero, sound investigation magnitude, whatever that someone wastalking about recently, you are familiar with, like, that material clearly labor. Like, especially in finance, like, you can still dolike, material with no links, if it’s super low-pitched searchvolume trash, you are familiar with. Cause a lot of the timesearch volume is not accurate, you are familiar with. You might see anything thatsays 10 or 20 research loudnes, but it actually gets athousand huntings a few months. Like, we see that so much and you got to test that material, you know. Sometimes you go to deploylike a pair hundred commodities and only gamble it becauseall it makes is like, for handful of those articles to take off. They can be your moneymakers, you know? And that’s the same with theaffiliate locates, you know.Like, on your affiliate site, you are able to only have a handfulof articles that are actually your moneymakers, you are familiar with, like your big money motorists. And that’s definitely anotherthing that we ensure a lot of. – Speaking of fund with affiliate, the sit for making moneywith agencies is pretty simple. The agencies paying me $5,000 a few months, but I don’t devote more than 5,000. I got myself a profit. But on the affiliate back of things, you have no boundary onhow much you can deplete. And in the beginning ofbuilding an affiliate place, you’re definitely in the red. And so the travel of anaffiliate site it’s usually could be profitable formerly thesites start to mature. I’m sure that one that’s makingsix anatomies a year for you probably is in the green at this object. I highly mistrust you’respending 10,000 a month. – I can give you a storyabout that site if you miss. Like I bought that site, that site was preparing $200 a few months, right.So when I bought that site, I make I only paid like $3,500. And the funny thing was Ithink the person that actually constructed that site, I think they built it basedoff the affiliate laboratory training. So it was built with areally good structure and like it got a right groundworks. But what it needed was, it needed someone to come inand scale it up, you know, expend a couple of grand amonth on like, the gap arrangement and material. Certainly start like, buildinglike hundreds of articles to it, like, truly startbuilding up the authority, are hidden through, like, Harrow, house out those content resources. And that’s kind of how we construct it up. And we saved that time, you know. We saved that, like, waiting around and..- The six month sandbox orwhatever that $250 a few months. – Yeah the sandbox sort shenanigans. We kinda saved that time. But yeah, unquestionably, like, you have to spend a lot more upfront on affiliate sites. Like, you might need to like, we have, I have the site that I wastalking about with project partners I was is cooperating with, I think we devoted like4 0,000 into that site. Like, and it has there determined like 5k. And then in the past year, that site’s really taken off and now it’s fixing like 2 or 3k a few months. Like , now we’re like( expletive ), like, “youre gonna have to”, it’s taken a few years, but now it’s really started to take off and we’re making like, we’remaking the money back now.So that’s the problemwith affiliate websites. You might have like a slower, the base to kind of grow it up. Like, you might have towait like 6, 12, 24 months to see your ROI. But when you do it reallydoes come to fruition. You know, “youre starting” seeingthat money coming in and yeah, like you got tospend a bit of money up front. And I think that’s the keydifference with agency. Like, when you bill someonefor services, you know, like 5, 10 k a few months, like, you gotta, you can get that coin up front. But the thing about the clients is like, they can stop at any time, you are familiar with. That’s the beautiful of agency, like, you can get reallycrazy ensues for a patron. You can acquire them millions of dollars. You can scare the( expletive) out of their business and then they can justbe like, great work chaps. We’ve hired person in-house now thank you for the excellent workover the last three years. We’ll give you a testimonialbut stop all study immediately.That’s kind of one thingthat can be a bit annoying with authority but it’s partof the business, you know. I recollect years ago, I used to get frustratedwhen we’d do like a patient and the new sell person would start and they’d stroke us off touse their friend’s agency or whatever. But you’ll learn that youhave to deal with that substance, you know, it’s mindset, you are familiar with. That person that you got causes for that used to work at that business, they’re going to go andstart somewhere else. They’re going to call you upin six months or three months or the next day and say, we need you guys on the account.So you can make money fasterup front with an busines, but if you want to buildlong-term bigger coin generator, affiliate sites definitelya big opportunity. – Yeah. And you touched upon this before. The money’s in the fling, right? Because as you’re building the site, you certainly want to growit as you’re building. So let’s say the affiliatesites shaping 10 K a month, you crave him to build 20 K a month. So you’re probably goingto spend 5,000, 6,000, maybe even 8,000 at that point, because you want to grow it. But when you throw it, depending on the marketplace, like Investors Club does theirvaluation based on revenue , not advantages. So they just look at what isthe last 6-12 months revenue. That’s when you get all the money back. So do “youve had” flip-flop inyour game plan for these places? – I are now in I’ve soldsites over the years. Like I said, back when Ihad a MySpace layout site in like 2006, 2007, 2008, I sold that site to like an end-user, like someone contacted thesite immediately, you know. I’ve sold websites on, it used to actually becalled SitePoint Marketplace back in the working day before theychanged the appoint to Flipper.So I sold a few sites on that. This is way back, but I’d never sell a site there now just cause you’re not goingto get a good multiple. And unquestionably in the future, like we’d sell some of these locates, like, actually one of the most important locates now I was thinking of selling it. Like, I even hit up aGregory and I was like, what do you think the site’s worth? And then he’s like, do you even need the money to sell it now? He’s like, if you don’t needthe money simply maintain growing it. So yeah, I was talkingto Gregory and yeah, and no, I’ve got a matewho runs a brokerage too. So I was going to hit him off as well.Jock from Digital Exits. He’s got Business Exits as well. So I reflect like I really likedthose business, you know, Empire Flippers and Digital Exits, if you’re going to sell ventures, I’ve also familiar with theteam at Invested Glove as well. Actually Chaing Mai conference, I sat next to the founder. He’s a great chap. I was chit-chat to him. I’m familiar with him throughTraffic Think Tank as well, chatted on and off. So there’s some good optionsto sell places now, you are familiar with. Like, if you’ve got a smallsite that’s just started, like, you could try flipoff, like, under 50 K. But for bigger administers, you know, you’ve got Digital Exits, you’ve got Empire Flippers, you got Investors Club and then for like really big deals, you’ve got like FE, so there’s options fortheir affiliates to sell. – And you can’t bicker with 50 X right now. And I don’t see that altering counseling. I pretty much scour all the marketplaces and I ascertain these days, I haven’t seen any site at40 X in maybe a month or two.So everything’s 50 X now. And I see it continuing up and that’s like taking a time machineinto the future four years and time compiling allthat coin right now. And if you can’t replicatethat with four years worth of money, then you got a problem. That’s the way I look at throwing. – Exactly. Yeah. – That’s why I adore it. That’s why it’s my business example. – I repute the thing with turning as well, you restraint the risk, you know, like, you restriction your risk profile. Like, a site could potentially, like, an algorithm uptake can happen and you can see a littlebit of a drop-off, like, kinda limit that risk but then again, you can sell a site to someone who can scale the( expletive) out of it.You could have a site thatwas shaping 20 K a month, someone buys it all of a sudden, they double-dealing or triplethe revenue in your life. It’s a tricky one. – I try not to think about that one. I try not to look. – You can’t think about stuff like that. – It’s gone. It’s out of my memory. Yeah. So I have some questionsrelated to other parties in positions where perhaps they havean agency or maybe they’re a solo adventurer doing SEO for buyers, what it’s like to fulcrum into affiliate? So I noticed at one point in time, you met the affiliate laband I was like, immense, formidable. Now James is in here, he’sgoing to contribute a lot.What do the training process look like to getting your team on boardwith modern affiliate practice? – I ponder like the affiliatelab was really good to kind of show people the blueprintof what to do, you are familiar with. Like it various kinds of marches youthrough the phases of like how to start an affiliate site. Like I’ll be straight with you, a lot of that trash once do, but some of the team representatives, but look at that contentand we’re like, wow, this is like game changer. It’s like a full idea of what to do to kind of grow an affiliate website. And even the two partners, she’s actually a dentist. She wanted to start anaffiliate site in the last year because she originallywanted to get into one niche. Now she’s changed the niche.But then I said, well justcheck out the apprentice laboratory. And then she’s like, oh, I’vebeen on the novice laboratory. She would prefer it more. So I think it’s got that, like, it’s got that entire, like, programme and game plan on how to grow your area. And this could be an idea for you Matt, but like you could starta marketplace with parties that are actually affiliate lab members and get them to sell their locates on it if they wanna make money, you are familiar with. Like, because like, that site that I bought that was from an affiliate lab member, that’s like blowing up becauseit had the right structure. – It’s good to think about. I have to think aboutliability and vetting and building sure there’s no shadiness, but I mean that’s where my intelligence cavity is. – I don’t want to positioned Gregory and the team out ofbusiness( inscrutable) – No, forget those guys. They’re done. We’re going to do this. Time kidding. That’s good feedback cause the affiliate labstarted as a set stage for our own brand-new apprenticesthat we bring into full play a head spring and trash like that.And then we’re just like, you are familiar with, this is pretty close to a trend. Let’s just impres it up andthen sell it as a direction. So it’s good that it still hasthat aspect of being able to train people. Is there anything particularthat you’ve learned for like any kind of SEO tactics andfeel free to share it now? Like. – I’m in some of the guestspeakers that you get on. Like I know you had Tom Disbury, that, the Australian SEO fromBrisbane who’s been killing it. Like, “youve had” him come on anddo like a client video about like, peculiarity snippetsand trash like that.Those types of things arereally great because even if you’re a seasoned SEO, you’vebeen doing it for a long time, you have those like, littlelike, professional kind of interviews and they’re good for the peoplethat might once know all the other stuff, you know what I’m saying? Like, if someone’s beendoing it for awhile, they probably know the entry-level stuff, but sometimes you get, it’s good that you get thoseextra modules in, you are familiar with, like, email market andthe boasted snippet trend. And yeah. And I mean, like, to be honest with you, like, where I’ve probablylearned some tricks was just on the Facebook group, you are familiar with, like, haphazardly people share substance, like, a couple of months agosomeone shared something about Muck Rack, you are familiar with, it’s like an EAT signal.And like I was investigatingthat somewhat heavily. And like one tactic that we’vebeen utilizing is actually hiring scribes who have authority and using like, we justsearched Muck Rack, you know, and mostly find those writersbecause a lot of them will have on their chart, likeready to hire or whatnot. And they’re already, like, an scribe on all these authoritative places and I’m seeing a lot more, like, bigger affiliate areas exerting that as like a signalnow, but relation it to profile. And yeah, I’m seeing that. I’m talking about like, affiliate sites that are doing like, ahundred million, you are familiar with, they’re using that as a factor.So there’s some bigsites that are using it. So I’ve been investigating that. I contemplate I first came across that on, I think it was on theaffiliate laboratory, Facebook groups I was talking about acouple of months ago. And then like, I “ve talked to” a copulate thathas a big affiliate site in the finance vertical and he was like, yeah, I’m use that. Yeah, like there’s littletactics that you can pick up, like in the grass, youknow, mentions of things. – Yeah, yeah. That was a good one aboutthe Muck Rack programme. It’s like push and play EAT, right. – Exactly – Like if a person already has authority, they’re already writingfor fitness websites, time kept them on your out page. We’ve been doing somethingsimilar with relate building too. I haven’t liberated thisin the affiliate laboratory but here’s a spoiler alert.There’s columnists that writeon like large-scale stages, like pro blogger, right. Then there’s like prolific columnists that are writing all the time. They’ve been featured inall these different places. They’re getting piece every day. So you can just contact them and say, “Hey, next time you writefor our fitness website, why don’t you use my website as a link for a citation in the commodity? And I’ll toss you 50 bucks every time.” And there’s been a pretty sick link building technique for us.- I’ve actually researched somethingsimilar to that as well. Like I framed like job ads up on, like, on like Upwork. And I’m like looking forward to, like, someone with a fitnesswebsite to share our reserve. And then you just say like, it’s like trawl, you are familiar with. Sometimes you might get five connects, but you’ll get like an editor who’s like, yeah I’ll link to you forlike 50 bucks or whatever.But they’re like genuinely legitimate associates. So you can do that. Like, it definitelyworks, a hundred percentage. – Yeah. Well, what kind of different strategies, what are the SEO differencesyou check between client SEO and affiliate SEO? For the people that are thinkingabout establishing the button? What do they need to think about? What do they need to watch out for? – I speculate like thedifferent strategies is like a lot of patrons that wework with the are like mid to sizable customs. So they require like prettysafe policies, you know? Like, they’re pretty careful with, like, anchor text distribution. Like content qualityhas to be really high-pitched. Like you could never, for certainclients that “were working with”, I merely don’t think Jarvis in that would be up to thequality that they require.Especially in like state and finances, a lot of regulations. So content has to be top-notch that we create for these clients and there’s like legal and brags and nonsense that reviews it. So I judge like, I approximate a lot of theclient work that we do is quite white hat, like a hundred percent, but we’re pretty safe with patients. And like, I predict the other thing is, like, certain times with bigger clients, it does take a longerperiod of time to get things implemented, peculiarly like, changes.Like, you’ll be submittingjuror tickets for a consumer and it might take them 6 to 12 months to actually implement something. Whereas if you’re runningyour own affiliate place, you wouldn’t implement something crazy. You can do it like in the next few days or even right then and there, you know, simply jump onto whatever CMS you’re using. I envisage with affiliate sites, you can be a little bit more risky with the strategies you’re using. Depends on the horizontal. Like, you look at someaffiliate verticals, like, everyone’s doingall sorts of( expletive ). Like, everyone’s doing expired regions. Everyone’s exploding client affixes. Everyone’s doing Harrow connections. Like, it’s crazy whenyou go into some niches and you merely look at themand you’re like far out, everyone’s already doingeverything, you are familiar with. – Yeah. – I adore that though becausethose are the best niches. Like, those are the nicheswhere people are making a little money because they’re competitive. I like the competitive niches. – Yeah. How much personnel do youthrow at your affiliate sites? – So we’ve got 19. – Percentage wise.- We’ve got 19 staff at the moment. And like, this is the only way haveabout 42 current patrons, but they’re all mid to gigantic clients. So like, if any patrons havelike, spare utilization time, like, and like they havea bit of spare time. We can just like, get them towork on their affiliate locates. We have quite a few contractors that work for our business too. Like, just like writersor merely freelance beings that we implement more, that we are able to like tap intoadditional resources. So yeah, we certainly like, yeah, we’ve got like, in-housedevelopment resources in them. We’ve got external change resources and we’ve got like, there’s probably about 30 parties or so that kind of work with our team. We’ve got the 19 in the bureau and then we’ve got the other 11 or so that kind of time help out with substance like evolution content, additional relate assets, material like that, you know.So we can scale upside. So we use essentially that 11 group of 11, they’re kind of more focusedon the affiliate substance. I’d say 50% of the time. And then from internal team, anytime that I have some spare time, like, it could be like inthe second half of the month, like, when we’ve finishedall of the client stuff and then they’re like, examination, I got some spare time.And then like, we’ll let’s just intention outwhat some of the stuff we can do for these locates that we own. It’s good in that sense, you know? – Nice, neat. How do you select whichniches you want to get into? – Usually like, we likemore competitive niches. I know that sounds crazy, but like, I’m more into competitiveniches because they’re niches are already know about, you know, like finance and stuff like that. We go into like, moreniches that are competitive. I symbolize, how do we select them? I reckon like, sometimes likewe’ve exploited policies, like, one of the easiest wayto like, pick up niches is just to like leant an affiliatelink into like AH reps and look at all the sitesthat are linking to that, you are familiar with, like , commissioning conjugation orcommission factory or whatever, you made that they’retracking associate into AH reps and then you kind of go through and sort out all the places thatare already doing affiliate.And then you can just export that to Excel and just sort through it and look for like the gems there, like, what’s a high payingniche that they’re ranking and then driving a lot oftraffic to locate sections, substance like that. That’s like one of myfavorite full-time strategies. I’ve been using for the last few years, just like competitive investigate. You got to really researchthe blaze out of a new niche. Like, you want to jump into a new niche, you have to invest a lotof time into research, like keyword study, thematic experiment, looking at what entrants are doing.I foresee, yeah, one of the favorite things, is always really rushing on AH reps and appreciating how competitivecertain keywords are in a niche, just wants to play with like, the differences between filters on AH reps as well. Looking at how the differentcompetition grades are for a site, trash like that. – I envision one enormous thing aboutwhen you start to level up as a SEO and you get morecomfortable with your processes and you have a little bit more budget, you don’t have to think somuch about niche experiment you simply decide, do I want to do tech ordo I want to do finance? And then you improve your finance site and then you can build intothese little mini niches as you go along underneath finance.And that’s somethingthat at the start, you have to be kind of select. So I’m not just going choice finance. I’m going to select thissmall sector under finance. Like I dunno, robo investingor something like that. But later on, you canjust be more loosened. Cause you know, like you’llget there eventually. One of the questions I hadfor you is what has been your biggest challenge to dateon the affiliate line-up? – Biggest challenge today. It could probably be things like, affiliate overseers thatyou work with immediately missing, like, where they’ll is just like, can you update these ahundred pages in the next day? You know, like, oh, we needall this content change.We’re exhausting a new product line. These hundred pagesneeds to be changed now. Our legal squad has picked this up. Stuff like that. Like, I know when people say in affiliate, like, you’re your own boss and you don’t have to deal with consumers, but I feel like when you startgrowing in affiliate asset, and then you start takingon like a lot of partners and some of them can get alittle bit demanding, you are familiar with, especially if they’re bigger teams.And then it’s hard if they’re compensate you got a couple of grand a monthlike, in affiliate committees you’ve got more, you kind of want to utter thosechanges to keep them happy, you know? So I think that’s thechallenge with affiliate that I’ve seen. I think in another one is like, sometimes the time that itcan take for a brand-new site to grow, that’s significant challenges, but you can just buy a site, bypass that, if you’ve got the money, got the cash ready, trash like that.Like, they’re two large-scale onesthat have been pain qualities. – How about turnover? Because you’re teachingyour employees how to fish? Well, clearly you’reteaching your employees like with the agency side stuff, but not everyone’s cut out to wanting to manage an busines and do auctions and all that kind of stuff. But with affiliate, you’re literally teachingpeople how to fish. Have you had turn over questions? – It’s big problem. Like, and you’re right, like, we’ve had organization that work here now for a couple of years and then they built their own site and they’re like, far out making a lotof money on this locate, I don’t really need thisagent’s job anymore. That was in danger a hundred percent.Like even one of my ex personnel, recently, just leave like two years ago, he’s built up his own businessand that just got acquired. Like, and “its like”, pretty good exit for you in the stock niche, I think i am, yeah. Like that’s a big risk. Like, I guess that’s something that can happen to any organization, you know. Like, if you’re doing SEO, like parties are alwaysgoing to try to hire you. Like, I conceive the thing is like, a lot of these peoplethat come to our team and they already having an affiliate site or an e-commerce site and then they just want todo an agency enterprise for a bit. Like, they couldpotentially leave eventually when their site starts built up. That’s definitelysomething that’s happened. I’m not going to lie. Like, we’ve had a fewof our ex organization like, coming like, build up theirown business and whatnot.- Do you use any retention approaches, like gain share on the affiliate locates? Or I heard you say youhave bonuses based on who acquires the traffic contest. – Yeah, that’s just onething that we’ve done. Like, we’ve done like, a traffic bonus. I convey, like we offer our material pretty well. Like, wages in Sydney arepretty high-pitched at the moment for SEO talent. So we offer everyone pretty well. We do like yearly bonuses like, yeah. Like, we do a lot of like, recreation things.Like, we paid for a couple ofstaff to go to Chiang Mai SEO. Like( expletive) like that’s expensive. You know, I make, it’snot expensive like to go to Chiang Mai, but like from Australia, you’re going to pay for flights and housing and( expletive ). And then you got to a groupof beings it’s like, well, it starts to add up promptly, you know.- Yeah, meals, yeah that all contributes up. – Meals. Like everything, you are familiar with, like going out to fancy eateries. Like we went out to dinnerwith some of our team at that restaurantwhere the Mastermind was like, substance like that. Like, it starts adding up, you know, like, it’s great time, you know, and the team beloveds it and then you go to an happen like that and then they get moreexcited for SEO, you are familiar with. I recollect one of our organization, like he went to Chiang Mai SEO. He never had an affiliate site, but I contemplate like a coupleof weeks after “hes been gone”, he was already starting his own, you know.So I envisage things like that, those incentivize peopleto kind of get places set up and get caused about the infinite. – Good. Good. What do you think is a healthybalance between patient SEO and affiliate SEO for you? Would you ever become full affiliate? – Look, I guess the thing about ourclients that we work for is like, we’ve got some really gone patients. So a lot of the clients thatwe work with are actually like, in-house SEO’s. A few of them actually operate theirown affiliate site on-site. So they like workingwith that squad because they can talk shop andtalk about affiliate locates and talk more like advanced SEO. I visualize a healthful concoction, at the moment we’reprobably doing like 80, 20, like 80% patient, 20% affiliate. I don’t think I’d everget rid of some of our bigger patrons because we’vegot some really gone like, bigger consumers that havebeen around for a while and we’ve doing some reallygreat works with them and yeah, they’re getting good results.So I consider a healthful mixis good, only to diversify. I definitely liked the affiliate substance. It’s like, it’s something you canget heartfelt about. I think it’s always funwhen you set up like, an email notificationabout a leading coming in, and then you appreciate those emails coming in. I don’t know, even thoughthat’s a bit weird, it’s like a dopamine. – It’s not creepy, It’s not weird.Everyone does it. Everyone looks at theirrank trackers every day. Everyone looks at theiranalytics every day. It’s not mysteriou. – Yeah , no, I chiefly just lookat like Google search console and like, we get like someof our affiliate spouses and their email marketings and nonsense. When you get a sale, coming in, it’s like that littledopamine made, you are familiar with, like, the emails startcoming in and then your like, oh yeah that’s great.I think that’s thegreat thing is when you, like, you make money, when “youre sleeping”, you know. Like, you wake up in the morning and you realize like 10 or20 auctions come in like, when you’ve been asleep. Can’t really do that with an agency. I necessitate, I’ve got personnel now thatworked for our crew in the U S so they’re kind of helpingovernight with undertakings and substance. So that’s cool more. But yeah, I belief like, there’s benefits of both. I don’t think I’d ever goa hundred percentage affiliate for the moment, but I don’t know, things can change, you don’t know, but at the moment like, we’re still having a lot of immense enjoyable with the agency stuff.Like, we are only hired in on thefive junior SEO’s that we’re frame through our onboardingprocess at the moment. We build out like a 200 station onboarding video loom checklist thing for the juniors. And like, it’s still a lot of recreation. I still liked when the agency stuff. I still like talking to some big clients. I still, I like doing the sales. Like, I still loved it. – Got it, got it. Any sadness from transposing or to, you’re dipping your footinto the affiliate side? Any dejections still further? – Not really, like, I symbolize, I’ve seen some other agency owners, like, who’ve started affiliate places, say like affiliate is dead, but I don’t think it is.I think there’s too many benefits to be playing around withit so you know, like, especially from a testing point of view and like, house out an resource that has the potential to grow. I think, cause there’s like, and it’s just anotherrevenue stream, you are familiar with. Like, if you’ve got affiliate websites and you’ve got an authority, it’s just another way thatyou can make money, you are familiar with. Like, you’ve got to hedgeyour risks, you are familiar with. Cause consumers can leave at anytime. Like, I can walk intothe office next weekend or pick up my computer at home and we could have fiveclients decide to leave because of coronavirus or because of some new person starting, that’s the risk of agency.The risk if affiliateis algorithm modernizes. Marriage can leave to, like, you can have a partnerthat you’re killing it with and then you’re making good money and then they can just stop you. Like, that’s happenedto. I’m not gonna lie. – Yeah. Got it. Let’s see. What kind of words of advicewould you have for beings considering to get into affiliate? Whether they’re an agencyowner or merely a newbie, just wanted to get started. – I’d recommend merely joininglike the affiliate lab track. Like, it’s one of the bestcourses on the market, I’m not going to lie. Matt didn’t pay me to say this, precisely from personal opinion. – Thank you. – I’ve done a few directions over the years. Like, I depleted like $40,000 for our team on routes, you know, like I’ve boughtshit consignments of courses I’m not gonna lie. And it’s definitely one of thebest tracks for affiliates.Like, especially if you want tolearn the chasten arrangement to grow your website on. And that’s somethingI’m always looking for. If I’m going to explosion that. Like, if someone’s improved the site, based on the affiliate lab track, like, that’s always a bonus, you know? Yeah, nonsense like that. Like, it’s so worth itbecause the price you pay, it’s so good for like the amountof content you’re getting. I think if anything, I’dsay articulated the price up, but I guess- I actually appreciate that.- You want to get out to a bigger market. So it’s good. I convey like the Facebook group’s good too, because like parties share goodies on there from time to time, you are familiar with, you just gotta have it, gotta follow those groupsbecause sometimes like, formerly a few weeks or once a few months, you see something that isworth your time, you know? And like, I’m on so manydifferent groups, like, and a lot of them, they just sent the trash andthen you really get out of there. So I clearly would admonish people, join up to the group and check out, get involved in the conversations. And it’s great to hear thatyou’re going to do that Mastermind thing.I think that’s going to be alot of entertaining for a lot of parties that “ve never” suffered the Mastermind It’s what I like. I probably preferMasterminds over meetings, but I still like them more like, yeah. – Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for helping. I genuinely be understood that. It is kind of a labor oflove with the affiliate laboratory. I picture a lot of peoplehave the perception that info product, that’s how people get rich by belief beings all this material. Well, actually being good at affiliate SEO blows teach SEO out of the ocean. So it’s good to hear thatkind of feedback actually. I be understood that. Where can people informed about you? – Prosperity Media is our busines AU. I’m on a Twitter connections8. Yeah, like, we guide episodes in Sydney, before all this coronavirus shenanigans. We were operating a lot of meetups. We extend a meet up withOnline Marketing Sydney. It’s chiefly SEOgrowth marketing focused. Get a lot of affiliates coming to that.Yeah, hopefully whencoronavirus dies down, we can start running more phenomena. Yeah, we just adoration meetups and occurrences and time converging up for a few cases cups. Masterminds like, generally we’re pretty selectivewho we invite to those. Just like friends offriends in the industry. People that like, are doing well. Sometimes we’ll be likeadditional beings, you are familiar with. Some, I get, it’s crazy when you run Mastermind and you just get hit up bylike everyone under the sun. And they’re like, give mean invite to the Mastermind. I’m like, who the hell are you? – Right. – I’ve never talked to you before. Like, if you want to get an invite, you gotta put in theground work, you know. You gotta come to a fewof the other incidents. You’ve gotta is demonstrating that you gain, you are familiar with, utter yourself known.Like, you gotta put in the ground use. – Absolutely. Well, dude, thanks so much for your time. Thanks for sharing all these nuggets. That’s good to see into your policy. It’s good to understandwhy you’re diversifying. So again, thanks so much and I’ll see you in the affiliate laboratory. – Thanks Matt. I realize the ask. And yeah, I most adviseeveryone mansions up to the lab and yeah, recognize everyonein the Facebook group. – Okay. Take care. – Thank you ..

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